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Can Sikh's eat eggs?

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Re: The Rehat Maryada?

Postby randip singh » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:38 pm

Here is our Sikh Rehat Maryada once and for all for Amritdhari's:

Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, Published Dec. 1994. "Kuttha: meat of animal or fowl slaughtered slowly as prescribed by Islamic law."
Punjabi English Dictionary, Singh Bros., Amritsar "Kuttha: Tortured, killed according to Mohammedan law."

In the Rehit Marayada (http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html), Section Six, it states:
The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.
Sikh Rehit Maryada
randip singh
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:25 pm

According to the latest posts, it could be well said that :
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude...nothing on earth
can help the man with the wrong mental attitude."

Well having said that, it would be desirable to clear concepts, otherwise
people just mix up things, they do not know where they start... where they
end... what are they looking for...they easily mistake a donkey for a horse.

What is it meant by sikhs of old? How long? 200...300...500 or 700 years
back? When you say they were avid hunters, it can be possible a small
fraction of the population. Because not all are going to be teachers,
doctors, farmers, gardeners, goldsmiths.... of course there are many types
of professions, and one has to earn the bread by somemeans, so a limited
number could be possibly hunters...so what is the big deal in it?
What I notice, is that there is total aversion on your part, to those who
proclaim to be vegetarians. One has to respect, each and everyone´s free
choice.

If the hippys drink and smoke, it is because of the bad company they have
kept, so they have aquired bad habits. This is real non/sense to blame their
condition for possibly being vegetarians, which I really doubt, I mean,it is
baseless, it is ridiculous to think in that way. On the other side, for
example go to Jamaica, or almost any country in the world...99.9999 are not
veg, and you will definetely find many many drug addicts, drunkards...and
the best thing is that they are meat eaters also, so you see, it is
ridiculous that if you want to eat meat, you disgrace and talk ill of those
who freely have taken the option of being veg. There is beauty in respect
and humility, so please respect everybody, without any abuse. Not all have
the same quantity of capacity of understanding, neither the same degree of
inteligence.

It is very well written in the Granth Sahib, from a correct perspective that
nobody is silly, neither smart, it is all His play.

I have never stated that the action of eating meat is compared to eating a
plant, i do not know where have you got all these wrong conceptions. When I
mention the word action, I mean "karma", so simple as that, any action
performed is karma. I clearly say, whatever one does good or bad, one gets
it back, that is the same, as of being responsible oneself for the actions
or karmas that one may perform. Please do not try to divert the attention of
the readers to a baseless corner. Read carefully and understand in the
context given, think carefuly then reply with sense, without partially
taking or partially understanding the words, because then the real meaning
is lost.


Why should we say that siks can do this or can not do that. Are we
sikhs not made of the same 5 elements like the rest of human beings? Then how
is it possible that there is a rehat maryada for sikhs, and different for
the rest of humans beings. Is there a different hell or heaven for sikhs than
that for the rest of mankind? If so, then sorry to say one is a murakh, if
not so, then why this is good for sikhs and that is good for others? It is a
pity, that in spite of such high and noble teachings of our Gurus´we have
hardly understood them...we are still very petty minded. When the brahmins
were proud of their caste, Kabir Sahib told them: if by being born as a
brahmin makes you superior to the rest of beings, why were you not born from
the mouth or other place of your mother´s organs. You were born, in the same
way as any other nieghbour´s son. So the same can be applied on us: if by
being born as sikhs, (we) those who think they are better than other humans,
or some privileges or rights or moral character are only for us, then we are
mahamurakhs in the eyes of the Lord.
Just as if we catch fever or flu or any
other sickness or cough, the medicine for curing is the same for all....the
doctors are not going to say that you are a sikh or american or african so
all of you have different medicines to take, for removing that headache for
example. Because there are not different types of headaches depending on
one´s caste, creed or colour... In the same way, the moral values, the
maryada, are the same for all the mankind, it can not be different in the
moral conduct for different castes or creeds... it is ridiculous. It is a
different thing, if someone in particular does want to take that medicine,
that is their problem, but the medicine(values, morality) has to be same
for everybody. Remember, once you leave this earthly plane, nobody is going
to ask you, where do you come from or what is your religion or how many
children have you got, or how much is your bank balance, etc.... But you are
going to be judged for whether you did something to move forward from this
point of existence towards Wahiguru, to merge in Him, thus getting yourself
free from the wheel of eighty four, otherwise one is going to get a good
whipping from Kal and his Yamdoots for wasting away this unique golden
oportunity of human birth.

See how clearly the bani says: awar kaaj tere kitteh na kam, mil sadh-sangat
bhaj kewal Nam.
This is true science, true maryada, true philosophy, true religion, truth by
itself. One has not to read any book written by any Phd, or doctorate or
MA, neither a philosopher to know any maryada. Our Gurus are our open books
with true gyan, true wisdom...why? Becasue they utter what Wahiguru wants us
to know. Men, philosophers, professors, Phd, write according to their
mental and intellectual level; but anyhow they are in the realms of mind and
maya, so whatever they do, is mental activity, means more confussion, anything done with the mind is a bondage, it can never be true gyan, while what our Gurus state is Sach(everlasting) in all ways So, none can be compared to our Gurus´. who are beyond Maya, Kal or
Braham.

You see, not all are destined to believe in Him. Even one may think that I
believe in God and that is enough. No, that is not enough! Only that being
is accepted in His court, who has it written on his forehead(wadbhagi) to do
the correct form of worship, under proper guidance of the Nam bhakti, the
real bandagee, which pleases Him and is accepted by Him. There is no other
way.
The biggest problem that we usually have, is that we do not really know what
sikh actually means. We take it very lightly.But it has a very high meaning.
Sikh really means a person who is a disciple(gurmukh) of the true Guru, is
pure in mind and with discipline and determination (Nam bhakti, abhyas,
devotion to Wahiguru) has won the mind(this is real bravery, veerta) and reached the first spiritual region, known as astral region, or the region of Niranjan. Now let us all ask
ourselves, how many of us have achieved this state. I think most of us will
have our heads fallen with shame. So if that is the case, how can we call
ourselves sikhs? Being this type of sikh is the first degree, the soul aquires in it´s spiritual journey, the second degree achieved is when one reaches the causal region, of Braham, then it is called a sadhu...and so on... when it is about to reach Sach Khand, it shouts out Sohang, which means I am "that", means I am as same in esssence as Satnam. So one has to proceed even further than the state of a sikh, but of course, being a sikh is the first step, it is a must for reaching the goal of being one with Wahiguru.

Our Gurus, through their unlimited daya meher gave us the right directions
to love and offer true devotion to Akal Purukh, and made us their disciples,
giving us, the guidelines for becoming a sikh of a Gursikh. From ordinary human beings involved with agyanta, they gave us the discipline to follow and become a true sikh, and what are those guidelines? In the following shabad of Guru Ram Das, fourth patshahee, are some of the guidelines of the maryada rehat to be able to call oneself a sikh:

gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.


udam karay bhalkay parbhaatee isnaan karay amrit sar naavai.
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.


updays guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilvikh paap dokh leh jaavai.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.


fir charhai divas gurbaanee gaavai bahdi-aa uth-di-aa har naam Dhi-aavai.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.


jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa har har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

jis no da-i-aal hovai mayraa su-aamee tis gursikh guroo updays sunaavai.
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

jan naanak Dhoorh mangai tis gursikh kee jo aap japai avrah naam japaavai. ||2||
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it.

The 5 k´s are just reminders, that we are gursikhs of a True Guru, and that at each step, at each inspiration and exhalation of oxygen, sitting or getting up, walking...etc, that we have to do constant Nam Simran, then we may call ourselves sikhs or gursikhs not otherwise. Just as when we were young we went to school, we had to study hard, struggle hard to achieve something...in the same way, not just by the 5 k´s, we become sikhs...I wish it was that easier. It is something more serious, with Nam Simran we have to fight bravely with the mind,defeat it and reach the first spiritual region or astral region, then only as said before we are entitled to call ourselves sikhs, then one could be of east, west north or south ,it does not matter, one has to workout hard to achieve that degree, that title, of being a sikh involves a lot of nobility, bravery, purity, humility, love and devotion....only then one reaches the state of a real sikh. So let us not take things so lightly.
So after all this, still one wants to eat meat and do Nam bhakti....you have all the best wishes...try it and see....otherwise it is all bak bak. I will always respect whatsoever one wants to do, because I well understand, one just follows without any choice, one´s destiny chalked out for each of us... it is quite difficult to convince someone...but one thing is sure, as long as Wahiguru wants, if I see any manipulation or twisting of the bani, of the pure teachings of our Gurus´I will surely not keep quiet and point it out, rest is all His Divine Will.

May Wahiguru bless each and everyone, and for that there is no doubt, but we also should keep our baskets upwards to receive that shower of Daya Meher.

Wahiguru Kee Fateh

P.S: below is a reminder of what was written on an earlier post, and it seems some have not gone through:

The creation is governed by the law of action and reaction. As you sow so shall you reap.

Let us be mature, and talk from a logical point and a possitive approach. As we know the whole creation is made of five elements or tattwas: air, water, fire, earth and ether or akash. All the creatures, living beings make the wheel of eighty four, " chaurasi ka chakar".
The lowest forms of creation in this world is the vegetable kingdom, in which only one element is active, which is water.
The second category is of the insects: in them only 2 elements are active, which are: fire and air.
The 3rd category belongs to the bird kingdom, in them only 3 elements are active: water, fire and air.
The 4th category belongs to the mammals or four legged animals, in them except ether or akash is dormant, the rest 4
are active.
In the 5th category comes the human being, in him all the 5 elements are active, that is what distinguishes him from the rest of the creation, the element akash, gives him the reasoning faculty, known also as "budh" along with intelligence.

Now this was a short and a quick description of the physical creation.
Lets now take the following example to ilustrate the topic being disscused above:
Let us imagine, seeing someone pluking a flower from somebody´s garden, the owner sees him and give him a good scolding.
2nd case, somone kils the dog of this same fellow, the case can be reported to the police and the infractor can be fined.
After some time, somone kills this man´s horse, this time the infractor can be jailed. After sometime again, some dacoit enters this man´s house and kills the house owner, this time the dacoit can be hanged, for his crime. So as we can see, for each infraction there has been a punishment, according to the degree of of the infraction commited.The punishment depends on the degree of the level of conciousness present in that particular form of life, consequently depends on the degree of the tattwas present or active in that form of life.
We can not live in this creation without creating karma; and so, if we have to create karma by force, let us create or collect the least amount of it; that is why it is recomended to live on the vegetarian diet, by doing that, we collect the minnimum karma on our heads. The kiling in this creation is done on each step and is unavoidable, but by going for a vegetarian diet, killing is done to a lower level of conciosness. It is esaier, to walk wearing a shirt, than to have 100 pounds of weight on our heads. In the same way, anybody who wants to walk on the path of devotion , on the path of ruhaniyat, of spirituality, will by himself see this need to be put into practice, not otherwise. We have millions of people in this world, 99.99 % are not vegetarians , but they are still going. So it is the conscious aim, which makes one decide in this way.
carlos
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Posts: 280
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Location: Satgura de Charna Kamala ....

Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:27 am

Below is a very beautifull, clarifying and a mind blowing shabad (mil jagdees milan kee bareea)of Panchee Patshahee, in Raag Gauree. It touches various aspects or topics of human interest...like purpose of life of the human birth and its importance....different types of lives... and grace or daya meher of Paree Puran Parmatma, Wahiguru Akal Purukh. The shabad by itself is quite simple and claer, hardly needs any explanation, by itself it is an (inner) eye opener...except for those, who are not meant to understand and thus remain manmukhs and wander in the Chaurasee Ka Chakar. The teachings of our Gurus are a serious matter, due rsepect and importance should be given to be able to understand them fully, and thus take full advantage of it.
So much have been written and discussed, if meat shoud be eaten or not...but that is because, although the bani is very very clear and direct to the point, the problem is that we humans are very weak, mind has overpowered us, we do not have the oportunity of Sadh-Sangat, neither give or have time to see the gems and spiritual wealth in the Granth Sahib, all for us humans, without any distinction of caste, colour or creed... it is a pity...and then also we say we know a lot, or we do understand the dharma, the teachings...what rubbish! That is our reality... very narrow minded. Only me... mine...prevails... so we limit ourselves by depring ourselves the true gyan, true knowledge of our Gurus!

Someone in one of previous posts said that, all had been quite well explained witout touching the Granth Sahib.... but the fact is that if we read the shabad written below... we shall see how well Guru Sahiban explains, the various bodies one(soul) can be born in this Maha Jaal, Maha Bhav-Sagar... Chaurasee Ka Chakar... give it any name... but in reality it is a jail for the soul...which keeps it away from its true source Wahiguru... so all misery and pain is invited with the arms wide open.

The different levels of consciousness mentioned in above posts, according to the tattwas or elements present (active) in that body, is what makes the difference ultimately.... so Guru Jee starts exposing the truth right from the lower level like insects, worms...and goes in upward direction mentioning the different lives of levels of consciousness reaching to the human level which has all the 5 elements or tattwas present or active. So the degree of karma or penalty varies, in the karma incurred....examples are given in my previous posts and are based not on my own logic or mental attitude, but on the teachings of our beloved Gurus!
That is why it is said in the bani: Aape Bheeje Aape Khae.... as you seed, so you reap. If you sow pain by killing, pain is going to come to your harvest.... beacuse that is what one has sown...however clever the mind has been, by saying there is no harm, everybody is doing it.... but that is the nature of the mind... to cheat the soul and kept it bound with the chains of karmas and then more and more karmas... it is an endless process.

To create karma is unavoidable in this creation.... but the amount of dirt to collect is in our hands... so to be intelligent would be to collect the least dirt, which with Nam Bhakti, could be easily washed away. Otherwise it would be like taking one step forward and hundred steps backwards, which will keep us from reaching our goal, Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Sp let us read the below shabad with attention and see what it truly means. When Guru Jee says that you were born as a worm, insect...snake...fish... deer... to whom is He reffering by saying so?
Naturally to the soul. From this it is quite clear, there is soul or consciousness in all lives, though due to some conditios it has gone in the downward direction of the creation... Kal Purukh has cunningly made this creation in a manner to keep enslaved the souls here, so that in this way his false, lifeless creation keeps going on.
So who are we, to inflict pain? If we can not give life, we should not take it, neither. Christ also said: thou shall not kill.
So if we can migrate from one live to another, from one body to another... as seen in this shabad below; depending where is our wheel of existence at that moment... therefore it is but just natural not to kill, or not to eat what is not advised by the Saints... An example of life taking and it´s reaction is well known since the time of Krishna... Dritrashtra was blind, and so he asked Krishna the reason of this his condition... because with his yog tap, he had been able to go through his past 100 lives and he colud see no such karma. So Krishna took him 4 lives stil more back and showed him a moment in which he wasa small boy playind neara pond and was taking the eyes of a worm with some sort of a sharp pointed piece of wood.... and taht karma came back after 105 lives.... so we see karmas are in our hands but not their results... nature best knows. Though we may not understand fully...but there is definetely some sound reason... that is why they teach us through their banis, for us... I think this bani as well as all of them ( Granth Sahib) are utmost precious, inspiring, full of true knowledge and above all with fragrance of truth.


Raag Gauree, Fifth Mehl:
Shabad: mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa

ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o.
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse.

mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you.

ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa.
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations.

saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.

ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.

jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan.
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord.

jo kichh ho-aa so tujh tay hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.

avar na doojaa karnai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.

taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay.
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har.


May Wahiguru´s daya meher be showered on each and everybody!!!
carlos
Guru Da Pyara
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Satgura de Charna Kamala ....

Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby sarabjitghuman » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:18 pm

Amritman wow you are what i call brahmin wadi people who are utterly so blind and unfortunate to understand a simple fact of life that even though they consider them selves true vegetarian yet they still eat meat in every which form... for e.g: drinking water, breathing air, eat what ever they like it is all made up of small living organisms undetectable by human eyes. so for you to say that you do not eat meat i will say you are a liar and PANDE the one BANNI warns us about...
sarabjitghuman
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm

For God´s sake, one should look at oneself before abusing anyone! But, what to hope, when one´s mind is dirty.... so then only dirt is seen everywhwere. Instead of washing one´s face with water and soap and looking neat, we say you are so and so. And then still feel, one is clean. But no matter, all those who have common sense, know what is right, no matter how much goondagardi is done, and lies upon lies are said, just to justify one´s own weaknesses. So much bani is said in a clear , logical and a true way, that anybody though illeterate can understand it, unlesss one is really blind psicoligically, or even worse, prefers to be blind, to the truth.
Because, as far as anybody can check or recheck the words stated in the previous posts, can see, that whatsoever baseless accusations of yours, are false. You are the real culprit! For killing the sense of humanity, and twisting the bani to your own taste...
You are mistaking intentionally, meat or flesh, with killing intentionally or unintentionally of any life form... and here the topic is of eating meat or flesh, of fowl, fish, lamb, or any alike.... Undoubtly, even microrganisms are living forms, but then, they have no body, so meat eating is is not involved in it...which does not mean, you are not gathering any karma, but yes, it is of a lower weight.

Let us see now my words, as in the post on the 10th Dec 2010:

To create karma is unavoidable in this creation....
but the amount of dirt to collect is in our hands...
so to be intelligent would be to collect the least dirt, which, with Nam Bhakti, could be easily washed away. Otherwise it would be like taking one step forward and hundred steps backwards, which will keep us from reaching our goal, Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

As we know the whole creation is made of five elements or tattwas: air, water, fire, earth and ether or akash. All the creatures, living beings make the wheel of eighty four, " chaurasi ka chakar".
The lowest forms of creation in this world is the vegetable kingdom, in which only one element is active, which is water.
The second category is of the insects: in them only 2 elements are active, which are: fire and air.
The 3rd category belongs to the bird kingdom, in them only 3 elements are active: water, fire and air.
The 4th category belongs to the mammals or four legged animals, in them except ether or akash is dormant, the rest 4
are active.
In the 5th category comes the human being, in him all the 5 elements are active, that is what distinguishes him from the rest of the creation, the element akash, gives him the reasoning faculty, known also as "budh" along with intelligence.

Now this was a short and a quick description of the physical creation.
Lets now take the following example to ilustrate the topic being disscused above:
Let us imagine, seeing someone pluking a flower from somebody´s garden, the owner sees him and give him a good scolding.
2nd case, somone kils the dog of this same fellow, the case can be reported to the police and the infractor can be fined.
After some time, somone kills this man´s horse, this time the infractor can be jailed. After sometime again, some dacoit enters this man´s house and kills the house owner, this time the dacoit can be hanged, for his crime. So as we can see, for each infraction there has been a punishment, according to the degree of of the infraction commited.The punishment depends on the degree of the level of conciousness present in that particular form of life, consequently depends on the degree of the tattwas present or active in that form of life.
We can not live in this creation without creating karma; and so, if we have to create karma by force, let us create or collect the least amount of it; that is why it is recomended to live on the vegetarian diet, by doing that, we collect the minnimum karma on our heads. The kiling in this creation is done on each step and is unavoidable, but by going for a vegetarian diet, killing is done to a lower level of conciosness. It is esaier, to walk wearing a shirt, than to have 100 pounds of weight on our heads.

As any normal person can see by himself or herself, in no place is written, that eating anything, like even spinachs or drinking water, killing is not involved, on the contrary, it clearly states that,life in this creation is based on life, but having said that, it is now for us to decide how much karma one wants to put on one´s head....

No matter, how much one will decide to be blind, but each and every time this same answer is going to be given, unless you read it properly and pay attention to what is written.

You are the manipulator and a real brahmanwadi , by covering your own mistakes and weaknesses, in the name of bani, by baseless insults...

Though I really doubt, that if you have not read and understood even 1 % with the previous posts, what guarantee is that you are going to do it this time..

But no matter, you continue with your hallucinations... I will continue in a patient and humble manner....not only with you, be it anybody.

As stated earlier also, respect is one of the most valuable virtues. No matter however you may disagree, I shall always respect you as a human being... it is just normal, your thinking in that way....otherwise, how would the creation go on?

Our Gurus were perfect in every way, but even then, the people(due to their agaynta) found faults with them and tortured them.... so if Saints or Gurus of that height(spiritual level) were misunderstood... this humble bandha, stands nowhere.
carlos
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:06 pm

For those who say we are made of water...because they only pay attention to one line from the Bani: paani pita... wihtout paying attention to the whole parragraph or tuk, so the meaninig coming out is not only limited or incomplete, but twists the real final meaning: Pavan Guru, Paani pita, Dharti Maat....

So in that way they say as Paani is pita, we are the offsprings of water, so can eat flesh or meat... What a ridiculous and mahamurakh elaboration!

First of all, man is made of all the five elements, not only water. Only the vegetable kingdom is made up of water... We humans are keen in classifying things into categories, so in that way the bani says: Pavan guru... which means among the elements, the air element is like, the guru, the chief,the prime minister, amongst them, it is essential, without water or food one can live up to some time longer or lesser,depending on each individual´s resistance, but without air, hardly can anybody live...so in that way air is the the guru among them. Then comes water, paani pitah, which means, without water one can hardly live a long time....and so ...then comes the earth. In many places, earth is reffered as mother, it gives life to us, it nurtures us through her offsprings, that is the vegetable kingdom, with its flowers, fruits and vegetables... with this element earth, all the solid organs and bones are formed, so we can see, that the physicall body is due to earth, not to water as some intelligent person, has stated above in some previous post...

And so on goes with other elements also... like fire and ether...

And with the ether element, we as humans having it present in us, along with the other 4 of them, make us intelligent beings, rationale, gives us the sense of dicrimination, which differntiates us from the rest of the beings. So it is the combination of all the five elements in us, along with mind and soul, which gives us this human body or form.

How ignorant is then to say that everything is made of water, so it is ok to eat meat...because that person stucks to only what he wants to listen and read, because it suits his weaknesess, in order to give total freedom to his mind and senses...worse than animals also!
And that line, which he repeats is: paani pitah, and then still has the cheek, to say that you are a liar and the bani warns from people like you.

Can anybody be more bully, or murakh, with his false and baseless accusations?

Thank God, most people have common sense, and really have not taken in consideration, your baseless and senseless statements. This is the sure way in manipulating the bani, and people with low self defense.
Proper understanding of the bani, is usually not easy. It is utter His daya meher, His bakshish, that one may understand the Bani in the real sense. Many talk, but few know what they talk.

Even being born in a gurukul, having Satpurush as father, or even as a brother, living under one roof with them, is not sufficient to comprehend the truth... if His glance of daya meher is not upon us.

As an example about this statement, we have it clear in the case of Prithvichand. His father was none other than Guru Ramdas, his brother was none other than Guru Arjun Dev, he stayed under one roof with them for quite a good time, but still then, his wickedness, and the evil in him did not leave him, he tried his best to harm our beloved Guru Arjun Dev. If he had known who they were, he would have bowed his dirty head and mind, at their lotus feet. Have we ever asked why was it so? Inspite of having constant darshan of Wahiguru in His human form, could not drink even a sip, of the rays of divinity emanating from these forms of Wahiguru.

So you see , nothing is possible at all if He does not wish so... it is not in one´s hands neither. Nobody is bad, or good by itself... it is all His divine play... He knows best, why this or why that... we are just puppets, actors... He is the director.
If this creation has to go on... imperfections have to exist, and people of this sample(manipulators), have to exist also. Otherwise Kal´s creation will come to an end.... and that, for the moment does not seem to be the purpose of the Creator.

Bani is the life of this humble bandha...and as far as possible, if any manipulation is seen to this sacred Bani...surely action is going to be taken in a gentle manner,leaving the results in His hands.
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby randip singh » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:02 pm

Diet in Sikhism


In Sikhism, only vegetarian food is served in the Gurdwara, but Sikhs are not bound to be meat-free. The general consensus is that Sikhs are free to choose whether to adopt a meat diet or not.[1] Orthodox Sikhs[2] believe that once Amrit is taken, Sikhs are only prohibited from eating Kutha or ritually-slaughtered[3] (Halal, Kosher)[4] meat. The Akal Takht represents the final authority on controversial issues concerning the Sikh Panth, and in this regard the issue of meat eating has been settled. The Hukamnama issued by Akal Takht Jathedar Sandhu Singh Bhaura dated February 15th 1980 that Amritdhari Sikhs can eat meat as long as it is Jhatka meat and that eating meat does not go against the code of conduct (Kurehit) of the Sikhs. Thus a Sikh cannot be excommunicated for eating meat. [5].

Some sects of Sikhs—Damdami Taksal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Namdharis, Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha[6] and the 3HO[7]—believe that a Sikh should be meat-free.[6]



Sikh Diet and the Guru Granth Sahib

Sikh intellectuals[8] believe that the issue of meat and vegetarianism is addressed in one section only of the Guru Granth Sahib:



First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.


[9]

On the views that eating vegetation would be eating flesh, first Sikh Guru Nanak states:

AGGS, M 1, p 1290.[10]


First Mehl:
Punjabi: ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥

O Pandit, you do not know where did flesh originate! It is water where life originated and it is water that sustains all life. It is water that produces grains, sugarcane, cotton and all forms of life.


On vegetation, the Guru Granth Sahib described it as living and experiencing pain:



First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!


Page 143 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji [11]

The first Sikh Guru—Nanak Dev—said it was a pointless argument to debate the merits of either not eating or eating meat in the context of religion, as maintaining a strict diet does not make one blessed or elevate one to a superior status, spiritually or otherwise, over another.[12] Being a member of a religion incorporates not merely one's dietary customs but the entire way in which they govern their lifestyle.[13] He advocated a lifestyle consisting of honest, hard work and humility, focus and remembrance of God and compassion for all of humanity and God's creation all around, with these three key principles taking far greater precedence over one's dietary habits.


Langar



Within the gurdwara, the Guru ka Langar (Guru's community kitchen) serves purely lacto-vegetarian food. The reason for serving vegetarian food is that the Langar is open to all. Since many faiths and persons have varying taboos on what to eat and how meat should be prepared, and since Sikhs accept these restrictions and accommodate people no matter their faith or culture, the safest option thought by the Sikh Gurus was to adopt vegetarian food for Langar. Meat was included in langar at the time of Guru Angad but then discontinued to accommodate Vashnavites.[14] The exception to vegetarian langar today is when Nihangs serve meat[15] on the occasion of Holla Mohalla, and call it MahaPrashad.
[edit] Reincarnation

Sikhism argues that the soul can possibly undergo millions of transformations as various forms of life before ultimately becoming human. These life forms could be a rock, vegetation or a non-human animal.Sikhism does not see a difference between mineral, vegetation and animal.[16] The only distinction made is that between these and a human.[17] In terms of the Sikh view of karma, human life is seen as being most precious, and animal, vegetable and mineral, all equally below human life. Therefore, in terms of the Sikh view, eating an animal is the same as eating a plant or mineral.[18]


Sikh intellectual views


I. J. Singh states that throughout Sikh history, there have been many subsects of Sikhism that have espoused vegetarianism however, this was rejected by the Sikh Gurus.[19] The Sikh thinking being that vegetarianism and meat-eating was unimportant in the realm of spirituality. Surinder Singh Kohli links vegetarianism to Vashnavite behaviour.[20] Gopal Singh commenting on meat being served in the langar during the time of Guru Angad[21] Gyani Sher Singh—who was the head priest at the Darbar Sahib—comments that ahimsa does not fit in with Sikh doctrine.[22] W. Owen Cole and Piara Singh Sambhi[23] comment that if the Sikh Guru's had made an issue on vegetarianism, it would have distracted from the main emphasis of Sikh spirituality. H. S. Singha and Satwant Kaur[24] comment on how ritually-slaughtered meat is considered a sin for initiated Sikhs. Surinder Singh Kohli comments on the "fools wrangle over flesh"[25] quotation from the Guru Granth Sahib by noting how Guru Nanak mocked hypocritical vegetarian priests. Gobind Singh Mansukhani states how vegetarianism and meat-eating has been left to the individual Sikh.[26] G. S. Sidhu comments again on how ritually-slaughtered meat is taboo for a Sikh.[27] Gurbakhsh Singh comments on how non-Kutha meat is acceptable for the Sikhs.[28] Devinder Singh Chahal comments on the difficulties of distinguishing between plant and animal in Sikh philosophy.[29] H. S. Singha comments in his book how the Sikh Gurus ate meat.[30]



The Sikh code of conduct on the Sikh Diet

Leading Sikh intellectuals ruled on this issue in the 1920s—as some Sikh sects attempted to get all Sikhs to be vegetarian—and came up with the following rule or code of conduct for baptised Sikhs with regards to meat and vegetarianism:

Sikh Rehat Maryada
— In the Rehat Maryada, section six, it states:

The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided:

1. Dishonouring the hair
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way (Kutha)
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.

The Rehat Maryada states that Sikhs are bound to avoid meat that is killed in a ritualistic manner[31] e.g. Halal, Kosher, etc.[32][33]

There are groups such as the Akhand Kirtani Jatha that dispute the meaning of the word "kutha", claiming it means all meat,[34] however, in mainstream Sikhism this word has been accepted to mean, as that which is sacrificed.


Historical dietary behaviour of Sikhs

There are a number of eyewitness accounts from European travelers as to the eating habits of Sikhs.[35] Although there is no prohibition on Sikhs eating beef, it is clear that Sikhs as a mark of respect for their Hindu neighbours did not partake in eating beef.[36][37] To initiate Muslims into their mysteries, one traveler said the Sikhs would prepare a dish of hog's legs.[38]

According to Dabistan e Mazhib (a contemporary Persian chronology of the Sikh Gurus) Guru Nanak did not eat meat, and Guru Arjan thought that meat eating was not in accordance with Nanak's wishes. This differs from I. J. Singh's research that states that Guru Nanak ate meat on the way to Kurukshetra.[39] Guru Hargobind (the 6th Guru) according to Persian records, ate meat and hunted and his practice was adopted by most Sikhs.[40]

Bhai Gurdas—a contemporary of the sixth Sikh Guru—wrote vaars (poems or couplets) to describe the behaviour of Sikhs at that time. One of his vaars praises the merits of goat meat:[41]

The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion.
Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.
On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted.
Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.
From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.
Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.
In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.


References

1. ^ "Only Meat Killed by Ritual Is Banned for a Sikh". Sgpc.net.
2. ^ Sekhon, Devinder Singh; Singh; Devinder (2005-01-01). "10 Gurmat and Meat". Philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib. Anmol Publications PVT. LTD.. pp. 143 to 172. ISBN 9788126123575.
3. ^ Punjabi-English Dictionary, Punjabi University, Dept. of Punjabi Lexicography, ISBN 8173800952; Hardcover; 2002-10-01
4. ^ Mosher, Lucinda (1 June 2005). "4 Distance". Belonging (Faith in the Neighbourhood) [Paperback]. Church Publishing Inc. p. 108. ISBN 1596270101.
5. ^ "Only Meat Killed by Ritual Is Banned for a Sikh". Sgpc.net.
6. ^ a b Takhar, Opinderjit Kaur (2005). "2 Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha". Sikh identity: an exploration of groups among Sikhs. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd.. p. 51. ISBN 9780754652021.
7. ^ Gabriel Cousens. Conscious Eating.
8. ^ Surjit Singh Gandhi. History of Sikh Gurus Retold: 1469–1606 C.E. p. 95.
9. ^ "Guru Granth Sahib". Sri Granth. p. 1289.
10. ^ "Guru Granth Sahib". Sri Granth.
11. ^ "Guru Granth Sahib". pp. 142–143.
12. ^ S. R. Bakshi, Rashmi Pathak,, ed (2007). "12". Punjab Through the Ages. 4 (1st ed.). New Delhi: Sarup and Sons. pp. 241. ISBN 8176257389. -07.
13. ^ "Guru Granth Sahib". Srigranth.org. p. 1289.
14. ^ Singh, Prithi Pal (2006). "3 Guru Amar Das". The History of Sikh Gurus. New Delhi: Lotus Press. pp. 38. ISBN 8183820751.
16. ^ Myrvold, Kristina (15 October 2005). "8 Sikhism and Death". In Kathleen Garces-Foley. Death and Religion in a Changing World (Paperback). M.E. Sharpe. p. 187. ISBN 0765612224.
17. ^ "Guru Granth Sahib". Srigranth.org. p. 176.
18. ^ Morgan, Peggy; Clive Lawton. "6. Questions of Right and Wrong". Ethical issues in Six Religious Traditions (2nd ed.). 22 George Square, Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press. pp. 144. ISBN 9780748623297.
19. ^ I. J. Singh. Sikhs and Sikhism. Delhi: Manohar. ISBN 9788173040580. "Throughout Sikh history, there have been movements or subsects of Sikhism which have espoused vegetarianism. I think there is no basis for such dogma or practice in Sikhism. Certainly Sikhs do not think that a vegetarian's achievements in spirituality are easier or higher. It is surprising to see that vegetarianism is such an important facet of Hindu practice in light of the fact that animal sacrifice was a significant and much valued Hindu Vedic ritual for ages. Guru Nanak in his writings clearly rejected both sides of the arguments—on the virtues of vegetarianism or meat eating—as a and so much nonsense, nor did he accept the idea that a cow was somehow more sacred than a horse or a chicken. He also refused to be drawn into a contention on the differences between flesh and greens, for instance. History tells us that to impart this message, Nanak cooked meat at an important Hindu festival in Kurukshetra. Having cooked it he certainly did not waste it, but probably served it to his followers and ate himself. History is quite clear that Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh were accomplished and avid hunters. The game was cooked and put to good use, to throw it away would have been an awful waste."
20. ^ Surindar Singh Kohli, Guru Granth Sahib, An a Study, Amritsar: Singh Bros., ISBN 8172050607, "The ideas of devotion and service in Vaishnavism have been accepted by Adi Granth, but the insistence of Vaishnavas on vegetarian diet has been rejected."
21. ^ Gopal Singh. A History of the Sikh People. Delhi: World Sikh University Press. ISBN 9788170231394. "However, it is strange that now-a-days in the Community-Kitchen attached to the Sikh temples, and called the Guru's Kitchen (or, Guru-ka-langar) meat-dishes are not served at all. May be, it is on account of its being, perhaps, expensive, or not easy to keep for long. Or, perhaps the Vaishnava tradition is too strong to be shaken off."
22. ^ Gyani Sher Singh, Philosophy of Sikhism, Amritsar: Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, "As a true Vaisnavite Kabir remained a strict vegetarian. Kabir far from defying Brahmanical tradition as to the eating of meat, would not permit so much, as the plucking of a flower (G.G.S. pg 479), whereas Nanak deemed all such scruples to be superstitions, Kabir held the doctrine of Ahinsa or the non-destruction of life, which extended even to that of flowers. The Sikh Gurus, on the contrary, allowed and even encouraged, the use of animal flesh as food. Nanak has exposed this Ahinsa superstition in Asa Ki War (G.G.S. pg 472) and Malar Ke War (G.G.S. pg. 1288)."
23. ^ W. Owen Cole and Piara Singh Sambhi, A Popular Dictionary of Sikhism, England, ISBN 978-0844204246, "The Gurus were loath to z upon such matters as the eating of meat or ways of disposing of the dead because undue emphasis on them could detract from the main thrust of their message which had to do with spiritual liberation. However, Guru Nanak did reject by implication the practice of vegetarianism related to ideas of pollution when he said, 'All food is pure; for God has provided it for our sustenance' (AG 472). Many Sikhs are vegetarian and meat should never be served at langar. Those who do eat meat are unlikely to include beef in their diet, at least in India, because of their cultural proximity to Hindus."
24. ^ H. S. Singha and Satwant Kaur, Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Delhi: Hemkunt Press, ISBN 81-7010-245-6, "In general Sikhism has adopted an ambivalent attitude towards meat eating as against vegetarianism. But if meat is to be taken at all, Guru Gobind Singh enjoined on the Khalsa Panth not to take kosher meat ie. Halal meat slaughtered and prepared for eating according to the Islamic practice. In fact it is one of the kurahits for every amritdhari Sikh. One who infringes it becomes patit (apostate)."
25. ^ Surinder Singh Kohli, Real Sikhism, New Delhi: Harman Publishing, ISBN 81-85151-64-4, "A close study of the above-mentioned hymns of Guru Nanak Dev clarifies the Sikh standpoint regarding meat-eating. The Guru has not fallen into the controversy of eating or not eating animal food. He has ridiculed the religious priests for raising their voice in favour of vegetarianism. He called them hypocrites and totally blind to the realities of life. They are unwise and thoughtless persons, who do not go into the root of the matter. According to him, the water is the source of all life whether vegetable or animal. Guru Nanak Dev said. 'None of the grain of corn is without life. In the first place, there is life in water, by which all are made green' (Var Asa M.1, p. 472). Thus there is life in vegetation and life in all types of creatures."
26. ^ Gobind Singh Mansukhani, Introduction to Sikhism, Delhi isbn=81-7010-181-6: Hemkunt Press, "The Gurus neither advocate meat nor banned its use. They left it to the choice of the individual. There are passages against meat, in the Adi Granth. Guru Gobind Singh however prohibited for the Khalsa the use of Halal or Kutha meat prepared in the Muslim ritualistic way."
27. ^ G. S. Sidhu, Introduction to Sikhism, Toronto: Shromini Sikh Sangat, ISBN 0900692073, "There are no restrictions for the Sikhs regarding food, except that the Sikhs are forbidden to eat meat prepared as a ritual slaughter. The Sikhs are asked to abstain from intoxicants."
28. ^ Gurbakhsh Singh, The Sikh Faith, Vancouver: Canadian Sikh Study and Teaching Society, ISBN 978-8172051884, "According to the Maryada booklet 'Kutha', the meat prepared by the Muslim ritual, is prohibited for a Sikh. Regarding eating other meat, it is silent. From the prohibition of the Kutha meat, it is rightly presumed that non-Kutha meat is not prohibited for the Sikhs. Beef is prohibited to the Hindus and pork to the Muslims. Jews and Christians have their own taboos. They do not eat certain kinds of meat on certain days. Sikhs have no such instructions. If one thinks he needs to eat meat, it does not matter which meat it is, beef, poultry, fish, etc., or which day it is. One should, however, be careful not to eat any meat harmful for his health. Gurbani's instructions on this topic are very clear. "Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. Who can define what is meat and what is not meat? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian?" (1289) The Brahmanical thought that a religious person should be a vegetarian is of recent origin. Earlier, Brahmans had been eating beef and horse meat. In conclusion, it is wrong to say that any person who eats meat (of course Kutha, because of the Muslim rituals is prohibited) loses his membership of the Khalsa and becomes an apostate."
29. ^ Devinder Singh Chahal, Scientific Interpretation of Gurbani, http://www.iuscanada.com/journal/articles/art002.html, "The above discussion leads us to the conclusion that the Sikh Gurus made people aware of the fact that it is very difficult to distinguish between a plant and an animal, therefore, it is difficult to distinguish between a vegetarian and a non-vegetarian diets and there is no sin of eating food originating from plants or animals."
30. ^ H. S. Singha, Mini Encyclopaedia of Sikhism, Delhi: Hemkunt Press, ISBN 8170102006, "The practice of the Gurus is uncertain. Guru Nanak seems to have eaten venison or goat, depending upon different janamsakhi versions of a meal which he cooked at Kurukshetra which evoked the criticism of Brahmins. Guru Amardas ate only rice and lentils but this abstention cannot be regarded as evidence of vegetarianism, only of simple living. Guru Gobind Singh also permitted the eating of meat but he prescribed that it should be Jhatka meat and not Halal meat that is jagged in the Muslim fashion."
31. ^ H. S. Singha & Satwant Kaur Hemkunt (1994) (Limited preview digitized online by Google books). Sikhism, A Complete Introduction. New Delhi: Hemkunt Press. ISBN 81-7010-245-6.
32. ^ Sandeep Singh Brar. "Misconceptions About Eating Meat — Comments of Sikh Scholars". Sikhs.org. http://www.sikhs.org/meat_au.htm. Retrieved 2009-08-09.
33. ^ "Faithandfood Fact Files — Sikhism". Faithandfood.com.
34. ^ [|McLeod, W. H.] (2003). "6 The Singh Sabha and the Years After". Sikhs of the Khalsa: a history of the Khalsa rahit (Hardcover ed.). Oxford [Oxfordshire]: Oxford University Press. p. 185. ISBN 9780195659160.
36. ^ William Francklin in his writing about Mr George Thomas 1805: "The Seiks receive Proselytes of almost every Cast, a point in which they differ most materially from the Hindoos. To initiate Mohammedans into their mysteries, they prepare a Dish of Hogs legs, which the Converts are obliged to partake of, previous to admission... They are not prohibited the use of Animal food of any kind, excepting Beef, which they are rigidly scrupulous in abstaining from."
37. ^ Extract from an officer in the Bengal Army and is taken from the Asiatic Annual Register 1809: "The seiks are remarkably fond of the flesh of the jungle hog, which they kill in chase: this food is allowable by their law. They likewise eat of mutton and fish; but these being unlawful the Brahmins will not partake, leaving those who chose to transgress their institutes to answer for themselves."
38. ^ John Griffiths writes on 17 February 1794: Now become a Singh, he is a heterodox, and distinct from the Hindoos by whom he is considered an apostate. He is not restricted in his diet, but is allowed, by the tenets of his new religion, to devour whatever food his appetite may prompt, excepting beef."
39. ^ I. J. Singh. Sikhs and Sikhism. Delhi: Manohar. ISBN 9788173040580.
40. ^ J.S. Grewal, Sikh History from Persian Sources: Translations of Major Texts, ISBN 978-8185229171, "Many person became his disciples. Nanak believed in the Oneness of God and in the way that it is asserted in Muhammadan theology. He also believed in transmigration of souls. Holding wine and pork to be unlawful, he had [himself] abandoned eating meat. He decreed avoidance of causing harm to animals. It was after his time that meat-eating spread amongst his followers. Arjan Mal, who was one of his lineal successors, found this to be evil. He prohibited people from eating meat, saying 'This is not in accordance with Nanak's wishes.' Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took to hunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice."
41. ^ "Displaying Vaar 23 Pauri 13 of 21 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas". SearchGurbani. 2007..
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:25 pm

Wahiguru jee ko sirf ik ardaas hae, kee achee sumat deh logo ko, hum insano ke haath meh kuch nahee kisko bee samjahne ko, bahut koshish kee gahee, logicalally samjhane kee,aur intentions bee ache theh, lekin Kaal kee zordar aur zabardast influence hae logo peh. Toh sirf Wahiguru agar chaaheh, changee samaj dene meh, to ho sagtaa hae. Wahiguru baksh apne bacho ko, aur achee sumat dena sabko.

Because as it is said in Raag Malaar, by Guru Arjun Dev:

bhaanai ujharh bhaanai raahaa.
By Your Will, we wander in the wilderness; by Your Will, we find the path

bhaanai bharam bhavai baho joonee sabh kichh tisai rajaa-ee jee-o.
By Your Will, we wander in doubt through countless lifetimes. Everything happens by Your Will

naa ko moorakh naa ko si-aanaa.
No one is foolish, and no one is clever.

vartai sabh kichh tayraa bhaanaa.
Your Will determines everything;

So we can clearly see, that no matter one´s intentions howsoever good may be for others, but if the good fortune of His glance of Daya Meher, is not upon us to have that understanding of truth, one is deluded. No matter how hard one may try to explain things in a clear and reasonable manner, but it is like the rainfall on an upside basket, not even a single drop will go inside; so that is why this bandha implores Wahiguru to shower His Daya Meher on each and everybody, it is not that i am a saint and He will hear me, but it is just an Ardaas at His Lotus feet.
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby gupta903 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:55 am

Guru kahte hai ki apne anter ke ek omkar ko jano. Jase jase uske janne ke raste par chaloge... Dil me "ahinsa" aayegi. Jo galat hai apne aap chut jayega. Jase ek sahi raste par chalte hia to apne aap decision lene aa jate hai. Anter ki awaj sab bata deti hai ki kya sahi hai kya galat. Crux vahi hai jo guru maharaj bata rahe hai. Apne anter ki khoj karo. Jo diya under jaal raha hai usse dekho, diddar karo uska, phir bass jo chutna hai chut jayega aapa hi.
Jaag re manva jaag. Har "shabad" har "vani" yahi boldi haan.
Jo unhone kaha ki " ahhar(khane) ko mat dekho, uska matlab hai ki kisi ko khane ko lekar dhrina mat karo, bcz " sabb ghatt Raam bole" aur "ek chinta laakh achinta,aur bus sab asha."


Anter ki taraf mudo, uski marg ka naam "dhyan" hai.
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Sun May 01, 2011 10:53 pm

Dear Gupta, it is totally agreeable with what you say: "apne anter ke ek omkar ko jano. Jase jase uske janne ke raste par chaloge... Dil me "ahinsa" aayegi." and:"Jase ek sahi raste par chalte hia to apne aap decision lene aa jate hai" and " Apne anter ki khoj karo. Jo diya under jaal raha hai usse dekho, diddar karo uska, phir bass jo chutna hai chut jayega aapa hi.
Jaag re manva jaag. Har "shabad" har "vani" yahi boldi haan.
Jo unhone kaha ki " ahhar(khane) ko mat dekho, uska matlab hai ki kisi ko khane ko lekar dhrina mat karo, bcz " sabb ghatt Raam bole" aur "ek chinta laakh achinta,aur bus sab asha."

Quite good, but what you are saying is qiute difficult practically. Why? Becasuse, if a person is wrong for you or for me, but that person believes to be perfectly right, how can that person ever think, to look inside towards the truth and try to correct himself or herself. No amount of explaining even with proofs and sound logic, is going to convince that person. What you are saying, is o.k for someone with a little bit higher level of consciouness, and you must know that no 2 people are or have the same level of consciousness. If not, you can see by yourself in the previous posts, that inspite of my good intentions, and explaining with acceptable truths, even then, some have accused me (baselessly, though they have full right to disagree) of being a brhamanvadi, liar etc, etc... So you see, if a person is drowning in a river, and you say go home and get youself checked with the doctor that nothing wrong has happened to you internally or outwardly. This would be o.k for that person who is drowning, if he is first helped or allows to be helped and brought ashore, then yes he can do what you said. But this is not the case, the one who is drowning, he is so unconsciouss of the situation, that you tend your hand to help, and he starts asking, who are you? what do you want from me? why do you want to do this? It may sound funny, but it is the truth.

And above all, we are nobody to convince anybody, even if the intentions are good. Becasuse, if it that was the case, and it was so easy said and done, why was Prthivi ( Guru Arjun Dev´s brother) so wicked and mean? He had all in his favour, he was a son of a pooran Sant Satguru, brother of the next Patshahee, he was surrounded by divinty all the time, but still, not a drop of that Amrit, got into his being.... So you see, even having Wahiguru in His human form, beside you, if it is not written on your forehead something, you will never pay attention, you are just not meant for it. So nobody is responsible for anything, human thinks that by his effort he will get it.... for him or for others....but the truth is that you get only what is written for you.... not that Wahiguru wants that way.... but because it is that what is written in your pralabdh... and that may be wordly possesions or name, fame, position, health, sickness... even brahamgyan(rightousness).

It is well said in the bani, human form, you get with your good karmas, but to get to the door of salvation, is got only by His grace.
It is not bad to wish good for others, bur then wish and leave it in His hands, if He wants, He will put that person on the right track or road. Let us not forget, He is the ultimate doer. His hukam is all powerfull.

With our feeble hands, we can only spread our jholees to do Ardass, that He may shower us, with abundant Daya Meher, to make us clean and paviter, to be able to stand near Him, to implant His Lotus Feet (charan kamal), on our minds first and then on our souls, all the time.

In that lies our welfare, by His constant remeberance, His simran, His chintan.
carlos
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:43 pm

I have just found some sound information on the present topic of Non Veg eating, which I am going to offer in the service of all the sangat. I clearly declare not a single word is mine, but I do totally agree with it. It is outstanding and mind blowing in it´s contents, and at the same time very clear and simple, direct to the point, without any zig zags, full of truth and humility. There are noble souls out there in this Bhavsagar, by good luck one comes to meet them, if not personally, but through internet in this case, I pray to Wahiguru to bless this soul(the one whoever may have written it) with more grace, so that His love and message can reach every corner of this creation, of which we as souls are quite hungry. Here it goes.

About Eating Meat:

The controversy in the Khalsa Panth over being a vegetarian or non-vegetarian arose due to the difference in the interpretation of the word Kuthha - one of the four primary taboos or Cardinal Sins for the Sikhs. Before going into the depth of what "Kuthha' really means, it is imperative to consider the real importance of these taboos in Sikhism. It is an undisputed fact that any Sikh who commits any one of these four taboos becomes an apostate. That means he is no longer a Sikh, i.e., he is automatically de-linked and ex-communicated from the Khalsa Brotherhood, even though he may be considered a Sikh by society. As a natural corollary, he loses the Grace of the Satguru without which no progress can be made in achieving the Bliss of Naam-Simran. The four great taboos prescribed for the Sikhs are, thus, of fundamental importance.

Being of such fundamental importance, the four taboos cannot, obviously, be based upon any temporary contingency of the prevailing circumstances. They must have their own solid basis and foundation, and must be conducive to spiritual upliftment through Naam-Simran, which occupies the pivotal position in the whole edifice of Sikhism. Otherwise, they will lose their applicability in the changed circumstances, especially when their role in the spiritual progress is doubtful or even negative. It is explicit in Gurbani that the principles of Gurmat are unchangeable and of permanent standing:


"Gurmatat Mat Achal Hai Chalaey Na Sakey Koey" (pg. 548)

[The Instruction of the Guru is Unshakable. None can change it.]


Obviously, therefore, these four basic taboos formulated by the Tenth Guru must have their own solid base which would stand the stress of all times.

The word Kuthha is generally (or erroneously) taken to mean HaIaaI meat i.e. "Meat obtained by the Muslim method of slaying the animal, slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal, while reciting religious formulae, the main object of slaughtering in this manner being a sacrifice to God to expiate the sins of the slaughterer and its flesh as food being only a secondary object..." The Jhatka method has been described as killing the animal with one stroke of the weapon without exciting fear glands secreting poisons into its bloodstream and without causing harniftil psychic waves to emanate from the animal's mind."

The origin and basis of Halaal method of slaying animals by Muslims may have been sacrificial. However, by the time of the Sikh Gurus, it had just become a "Muslim method" without any consideration of its sacrificial origin. In fact, a separate class of professionals, called butchers, had emerged with the sole purpose of slaying the animals in this way. Thus, through the employment of butchers, the original idea of slaughtering the animal as a "sacrifice to God to expiate the sins of the slaughterer" had ceased to exist. The original practice had become professionalized and commercialized and remains so even now. So, according to the generally prevailing idea as advocated by many Sikh scholars, the main reason for imposing this taboo of not eating Halaal meat is not that it is sacrificial or even religious. Rather this taboo had been imposed primarily to liberate the Sikhs from mental slavery of the then rulers of the Muslim faith who had banned by law the slaying of animals by any method other than Halaal. If this interpretation is accepted, then the following points arise:

(i) With the changed times now, when there is no longer such coercion from any quarter, there should be no need for continuing this taboo in the list of the four taboos because the reason for the imposition of this taboo no longer exists.

(ii) It also implies that the four taboos which, have been declared by Satguru himself as basic and of fundamental importance, may not necessarily be conducive to spiritual enhancement of the soul through Naam-Simran; their objective being merely to create a spirit of moral, and, according to some, physical strength to face the unjust and tyrannical rule of the then rulers. Obviously, this cannot be the situation as the main and the only objective of the Satguru was and is to implant the Holy Naam firmly in the minds of the Sikhs through Holy Amrit (Khande-Ki.Pahul). One cannot imagine the All knowing Satguru imposing a taboo of such basic importance which has no relationship with, or which does not help his Sikhs in the achievement of the Spiritual Bliss.

(iii) If we accept this position of a taboo being imposed only to serve the conditions prevailing at a particular time, then we provide a pretext to the so-called Modern Sikhs who consider that the keeping of Keshas is no longer necessary in the changed times. They also contend that Kirpan is now of little significance in this atomic age. They openly assert that religion must change with the changing times. The spirit of Sikhism, according to them, lies only within the Sikhs and it has nothing to do with the outward appearance or baanaa. They further contend that the then prevailing circumstances made the necessity of keeping Sikhs unique and easily distinguishable. In the changed circumstances that necessity no longer exists. Thus, accepting the above background of the Kuthha will lead to total destruction of the edifice of Sikhism.

(iv) Moreover, how would we classify fish? Is it HaIaal or Jhatka?

(v) Meat-eating Sikh brethren advocate that the only touchstone to be used in deciding whether meat should be eaten or refrained from, is whether it creates trouble in the body and fills the mind with evil. If there is no such ill effect then there is no harm in eating it. In the support of this contention, they cite the following couplet from Gurbani:


"Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar
Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Mey Chaley Vikaar" (pg. 196)

[O Baba! All other foods (except the Naam) create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.]


Evidently the foregoing couplet is a mis-quotation in this context because herein Guru Sahib is comparing all material foods with the Divine Food (i.e. Naam-Simran) and is decrying the former. The word HORE is very crucial in this couplet.It does not mean ANY food but any OTHER food, i.e., any food other than NAAM. In the absence of the Divine Food (Naam), all material foods will sicken the body as well as the soul. The very idea of eating meat fills the mind with evil making it aggressive and a partner in taking the life of an innocent creature. For this very reason, almost all of the well-known spiritually enlightened Gursikhs of the past and present have been and are shunning meat and allied non-vegetarian foods. Such foods are not conducive to spiritual development and Naam.Simran and, therefore, the all-knowing Satguru could not approve them.

(vi) In two Hukam Naamaas of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib there are clear cut instructions prohibiting the eating of meat, fish, etc. The actual words used are "Maas machhi de nerrey nahin jawnaa." when Guru Nanak in his sixth form prohibits Sikhs's from eating flesh in such a strong language, how can he, in his tenth form, issue instructions absolutely contrary to and in negation of his own earlier instructions?

(vii) Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, writes in his work DABISTAN-E- MAZAHIB as follows:

"Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Aijun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak"

What clear cut evidence against eating flesh and drinking wine in Sikhism!

(viii) Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's "UPDESH" to Bhai Daya Singh Ji which is mentioned in "SUDHARAM MARAG GRANTH", and also found written in some old handwritten volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: "One who does not: (a) Steal, (b) Commit adultery, (c) Slander anyone, (d) Gamble, (e) Eat meat or drink wine, will be liberated in this very life (i.e. Jeewan Mukt)"

(ix). It is also asserted that bravery is connected with eating animal flesh. The assertion is baseless. In fact, bravery is not connected with brute body force. Real bravery comes out of the spirit of sacrifice for the Truth and arises from the state of mind. The very prevalent words Charhdi Kala among the Sikhs refer to the Charhdi Kala of the spirit. The Sikh history is full of such instances where Sikhs who were hungry for days together defeated the tyrant Mughal forces whose meat eating habits were legendary.

(x) There is no difference in either taste or nutritive content of meat obtained through Jhatka or Halaal methods. Meat remains meat, whatever may be the method of slaying the animal. It is a mockery of the august and everlasting holy fundamental principles of Gurmat to attach such a fundamental importance to meat obtained from a particular method of slaying the animal, that its eating by a Sikh makes him an apostate, and that obtained from another method of slaying becomes fully acceptable. Either meat is allowed or is prohibited totally. There can be no mid-way. It is rather strange that many 'modern' and 'intellectual' Sikhs, who are often questioning the rationale of such edicts as keeping of Kirpan or Keshas and even the particular type of Kachhehra, generally do not question the rationale of Jhatka and Halaal distinction in respect of meat. Obviously, it is the generally preferred taste of the tongue that keeps them mum on this issue.

These are only a few of the inconsistencies and contradictions in accepting the interpretation of Kuthha to mean HalaaI type of meat.

Now let us consider as to what is the true meaning of the word Kuthha Etymologically, the word "Kuthha" (killed) is a past participle which has been derived from the root "Kohna" which means to slay or kill. This word does not mean to slay slowly or according to the Muslim method. In fact, to my knowledge, this word has never been used in the Muslim literature or in their general language to refer to "Halaal" meat. There are number of similarly derived words, e.g. "Muthha," "Dhatthha," etc. Thus, the word "Kuthha" literally means meat obtained by killing animals with any sharp weapon irrespective of whether any holy hymns are read at that time or not. In fact, reading of an holy hymns on this most cruel and heartless moment, is itself a highly sacrilegious act. For instance if one accepts a bribe or commits a theft while reciting holy hymns and these claims that because of his having read holy hymns during that act it no longer remains a crime, is only befooling himself.

Now consider this from another angle. For Halal meat, the animal is killed while reciting Qalima - the holy Mantra of the Muslims praising God in Arabic language. For obtaining Jhatka meat, they say Sat Sri Akal, which is also praise of God but in Punjabi language. Meat obtained while reciting praise of God in Arabic language is Haiaal (sacred) for a Muslim and is Haraam (unsacred) for a Sikh. Likewise meat obtained while reciting praise of God in Punjabi language is HaIaaI (sacred) for a Sikh and Haraam (unsacred) for a Muslim. By implication, meat being the common factor in both cases, Qalima is Haraam for a Sikh and Sat Sri Akal is Haraam for a Muslim. If both Qalima and Sat Sri Akal are praises of God in different languages, neither of them is Haraam. In fact, Haraam is the selfish trend of the mind of the meat eaters.

S. Kapur Singh rightly points out "Sikhism is not a religion of confusion and tomfoolery. The Sikh Way of Life is based upon the highest principle of Divinity -with the ultimate goal of merging one's soul (Atma) with the Ultimate Soul (Param-Atma) In Gurbani the word 'Kuthha" as well as 'Kohna' have been used at a number of places in this sense:


"Paap Karendar Sarpar Muthey.
Ajraeel Pharrey Phar KUTHHEY" (pg. 1019)

The sinner will certainly be ruined or destroyed.
The angel of death will seize and kill them.
(Here the word "kuthhey" means simply killing, not killing by Haiaal)

"Bed Parhey Mukh Mitthee Baani
Jeeaan KUHAT Na Sangey Paraanee" (pg. 201)

He (Pandit) recites the Vedas very sweetly, but he does not hesitate to kill life.

"Abhakhya Ka Kuthha Bakra Khanaa
Choukay Upar Kisey Na Jaanaa" (pg. 472)

They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims which the Hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square.


The supporters of the word Kuthha to mean Halaal meat very often bank upon the above cited couplet to support their contention. They ascribe it to mean the meat obtained by slaying goats while uttering Qalima, which is the Muslim way of slaughtering animals. If the word Kuthha were to mean HaIaai meat, the use of the word abhakhya is superfluous. The sentence should have been simply Kuthha Khaanaa to mean the eating of the HaIaaI meat. The very fact that the word Kuthha has been qualified with the adjective abhakhya kaa means that Kuthha refers to simple meat of the killed animal, irrespective of the method of slaying the animal; and while qualifying meat to mean Haiaai, the words abhakhya kaa had to be particularly prefixed to convey that sense. Almost all the renowned commentators and translators of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, e.g., Bhai Sahib Vir Singh, Professor Sahib Singh, S. Manmohan Singh, etc., have interpreted this couplet in this way.

It is thus clear that the word Kuthha means simply meat of the killed animal and does not go into the detail of how the animal is killed. Like so many other adulterations committed by the anti-Sikhs in Gurmat Rahit Maryada, this interpretation of the word Kuthha to mean HaiaaI meat has also been initiated and popularized by those very anti- Sikhs, in their efforts to destroy the roots of the new faith in order to decrease its efficacy and create doubts and dissensions in the Panth. Our brothers have unconsciously fallen in their trap.

The only hymn in the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib that is specifically cited (by meat-eaters) in support of eating meat is the hymn of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in the Var of Raag Malhar on pages 1289-90 beginning with the couplet:


"Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhaghrrey.
Gian dhian Nahin Jaaney.
Kaun Maas Kaun Saag Kahaavey
Kis Mah Paap Samaaney" (pg. 1289-1290)

Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat.
He does not have the True Wisdom.
Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not.


A deeper study of the whole hymn brings out:

i. Herein, Guru Sahib is addressing a Vaishnav Pandit who believes that he can achieve his spiritual goal only by avoiding meat as food and not trying to obtain the true wisdom through meditation. He has stressed that only avoiding meat will not lead one to the achievement of Spiritual Bliss if one does not do Naam-Simran. This equally applies to all, including non-meat-eating Sikhs.

ii. It relates to the flesh or meat in general and not to any particular type of flesh - whether prepared by Halaal or Jhatka method. The Sikh supporters of flesh eating do not accept at all the intake of all types of meat, but according to them, only Jhatka meat is permissible and HaIaal is totally prohibited. In other words, what does the term "Kuthha" denote?

iii. The flesh of the mother's womb wherein the human body is born, the flesh of the mother's breasts which feed the infant, the flesh of the tongue, ears, mouth, etc., used for perception of various senses of the body, the flesh in the form of wife and off-springs referred to in the Shabad, is flesh no doubt and one cannot escape it, but is it the flesh to be eaten as food by the humans? Does the love for this type of flesh involve any cruelty or slaughter of living bodies? Obviously, the Shabad has a deeper meaning telling Vaishnav pandits that merely escaping from the flesh does not take one anywhere. Nor can anyone get rid of the flesh (i.e., attainment of salvation from the cycle of birth and death) by his own futile efforts without the Grace of the True Guru.

One very well known Sikh writer, in his book on Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's life, while claiming that the above hymn supports meat eating, recommends that those Sikhs who seek spiritual bliss through Naam Simran should shun it! Well, devoid of Naam Simran Sikhism is reduced to naught.

At this point it would be worth mentioning two well known anecdotes from the life of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this respect:

i.During his visit to Lahore, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji happened to stay in the neighbourhood of a big slaughter house. In the ambrosial hours of the early morning, he heard loud shrills and cries of the animals being butchered there. Then, in the daytime, he saw the population addicted to vices connected with meat, wine and women. He was so moved by this sight that he exclaimed:


"Lahore shahar zahar kahar sawa pahar" (pg. 1412)
God's curse is upon the city of Lahore for a quarter of the day*


ii. Duni Chand was holding a grand annual feast to feed the Brahmins in celebration of Saraadh ceremony for the peace of his departed father's soul. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji told him that his father had taken the body of a wolf and was starving on the nearby river bank at that time. Duni Chand immediately went there and saw the starving wolf. On seeing his son, the wolf died and thus spoke to him from his Astral or luminous body:

"In human body when I was nearing death, I smelt the flavor of meat being cooked in the neighbouring house and felt an ardent desire for it. I died in the same state of mind. That is why I was given the body of a wolf so that I could fulfil my last desire in human life."

Gurbani also says:


"Jit Laago Man Baasna, Ant Saaee Pragtaani" (pg. 267)

[The desire to which the mind is attached, becomes manifest in the end.]


This brings out clearly the thinking of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this respect.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib prohibits eating of animal flesh in clearcut and unambiguous language in a number of places:


"Jee Badhoh So Dharam Kar Thaapoh,Adharam Kaho Kat Bhai.
Anpas Ko Munwar Kar Thaapoh, Kaa Ko Kaho Kasaaee. (pg. 1103)

You kill animals and call it religion (Rahit); then what indeed is irreligion (Kurahit)?
Even then you consider yourself as a sage of sages; then whom to call a butcher?

"Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, Jhoothhaa Jo Na Bichaarey. Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudai Kahat Ho,To Kio Murghi Maarey" (pg. 1350)

Do not call various religious texts false. False is one who gives no thought to their contents.
If you consider God is in all, then why do you slaughter the chicken (i.e., life?)

"Rojaa Dharey, Manaavey Mlah, Svaadat Jee Sanghaarey.
Aapaa Deldi Avar Nahin Dekhey,Kaahey Kow Jhakh Maarey" (pg. 1375)

You keep fasts (i.e., religious acts) to appease God. At the same time you slay life for your relish.
This utter selfishness is nothing but empty or nonsensical talk.

"Kabir Jee Jo Maareh Jor Kar,Kaahtey Heh Ju Halaal.
Daftar Daee Jab Kaadh Hai, Hoegaa Kaun Havaal" (pg. 1375)

Whosoever slays life by force and call it sanctified;
What will be his fate when he will be called to account for it in His Court?

"Kabir Bhaang, Mach liii Surapaan Jo Jo Praanee Khahey.
Tirath, Barat, Nem Kiaye Te Sabhay Rasaatal Jahey" (pg. 1376)

Whosoever eats flesh, fish, etc. and takes wine and hemp, all his religious acts will go to waste.

"Kabir Khoob Khaana Khichri, Ja Meh Amrit Lon
Heraa Rotee Kaarney Galaa Kataavey Kon" (pg. 1374)

Blessed is the simple food of rice mixed with salt;
Who would risk his head to be slain hereafter, for the meat one eats here?


It is thus clear from the foregoing that the word Kuthha used in the Sikh Code of Conduct does not refer to Halaal or sacrificial meat at all, but refers to meat and allied products as a whole. It means simply to slay or cut the animal whatever may be the method used for the purpose. The use of the word in the same sense at a number of places in Gurbani brings out this point beyond any shadow of a doubt. Accordingly, eating flesh in general (and not only Halaal) is totally prohibited for the Sikhs and is one of the four Cardinal Sins enunciated in the Sikh Code of Conduct. It is a great travesty of the factual position to assert that, tIn the Sikh Doctrine, therefore, there is no religious injunction for or against meat eating; it is a matter of individual choice and discretion, a most sensible principle.

All the Rahits (Do's) and Kurahits (Don'ts or taboos) are of fundamental importance in Sikhism. These are a pre-condition for one's being accepted for baptism or taking of Amrit which means nothing but Naam:


"Amrit Naam Parmesar Tera Jo Simray So Jeevey" (pg. 616)

[God; Amrit is nothing but your Naam and he alone lives who meditates or contemplates on it.]

Amrit Har Har Naam Hay Meri Jindareeay
Amrit Gurmat Paaey Ram" (pg. 538)

[The Naam Divine is Amrit; and is obtained through the Guru's Instruction.]
carlos
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby djjs_khalsa » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:46 am

Brothers and sisters

we all are bound in "Tin Gunas" Rajo Gun, Tamo Gun and sato Gun.

Flesh (of any kind. any creature), wine. rotten or overcooked food will increase your TAMO GUN pravriti. you behaviour thought process
will become wild.. devils eat such food. this kind of food increases AHAM, AHANKAR OR HOUME which is posion for a sikh.
your rude behaviour. ruthlessness, anger, disrespect to others your tone and all negetive thougth is derived by TMAO GUN


in fact food we are eating now a days is contributing criminal activities accross the world.if you go to to jails and find the record you will find
almost oprisioners are non-vegeterian or drug consumers

if you are eating anything like this you are for sure going to join the pool of devils as such food inclulcates devil nature in our minds. no matter which
community you belong to. you sould not eat such food beeing a human first.

also cooking such food consumes more energy and water than veg food. so my friends eathing pure veg you are saving water and energy as well
and helping in enviorment conservation.conservation of human values.

about eggs. the yello part of egg contains a chemical that causes breast cancers to ladies.and is not good for mens either.
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:52 pm

Sikhs are humans like the rest of men. We also are born like others, and live and die like the rest.

So why is it questioned, that if Sikhs can do something wrong like others do? Like eating non-veg. Just by being born in Sikh community, does not exempt us from the laws of nature. We have to study and work, like any other neighbor to earn our bread. We have children, spouses, friends....just like any other humans. And if we do anything wrong, police will definitely catch us .... So you see, it not a question of being sikh or not a sikh in doing something wrong or good. All these attitudes are manmukhta.

If we are real sikhs, we then have to be sikhs of a Gursikh, of a Gurmukh....then only can we be called wadbhagees. Then only can one make difference in being a sikh, than in thinking to be one. At the Holy feet of a Sadh, we gain true knowledge, and then only we shed all our evil habits and tendencies, our agyanta, our murakhta ...and we get rid of all our deep ignorance... thus become truly liberated from all sort of chains which keep us in "brham", that just by being born in sikh dharma we are special. No. The only difference between men, is whether we have got Gurprasad of Nam or not.

If we have, then yes, we are the beloved ones of Wahiguru. If not, then as the Bani says, we are as good dead corpses.

So brothers and sisters, wake up from the dreamy superstitions, rituals, dogmas and other false forms of worship... let us get hold and hope on only one Wahiguru.

That is all we need. Everything else is useless. Our Bani is very very simple, clear and direct. But sadly, we have en-caged ourselves. That also, when the bani left by our Gurus is incomparably the highest and simplest. Those who have manipulated the teachings, and led us astray even today, shall have to pay a heavy price, for this and leading us to the pitfall along with them. They have made out of the teachings,a false type membership club, with rules and regulations, and make us believe, that if we do that, we are sikhs, otherwise we are beadbees....which is totally wrong.

The Bani says, Saacha Sahib, Saacha Nao. In each ang of the Granth Sahib, only mahima is found of one Wahiguru and His Nam and Gurmukhs, which is all the same.And is our only true hope and anchor.
carlos
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Re: Can Sikh's eat eggs?

Postby carlos » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:34 pm

Satguru Nanak, in Raag Gauree Chaytee, sheds some light on the present topic above, about if we can eat meat, fish, eggs, fowl, etc .......


KAYTAY RUKH BIRAKH HAM CHEENAY KAYTAY PASOO UPAA-AY.
I TOOK THE FORM OF SO MANY PLANTS AND TREES, AND SO MANY ANIMALS.

[b]KAYTAY NAAG KULEE MEH AA-AY KAYTAY PANKH UDAA-AY.

MANY TIMES I ENTERED THE FAMILIES OF SNAKES AND FLYING BIRDS.
[/b]


First of all, He is telling us that, all life forms have souls in them, that is why He says we have been born several times as plants, trees(vegetable kingdom), animals (mammals), snakes, birds(those born from eggs) ..... He clearly states all life forms have souls.

So that is why, killing them or eating them is a sin. Actaully, all life forms have souls. Even eating vegetabes create karmas, and add to our already heavy burden. This creation is so wisely designed by Kal Purukh, that he has set up this net to keep entangled souls in this part of the creation under his jurisdiction. No way to escape from it.

But as we have to live here, and we can not avoid creating karmas, Gurmukhs advice us to collect the least amout of karmas.

All creation is made of 5 tattwas or elements. And the amount of these tattwas, single or combined present in the living forms, is what makes heavier or lighter, to our karmas created.

The first category is of the vegetable kingdom, which has only one tattwa active in them , and that is water.

The second category is of the insects: in them only 2 elements are active, which are: fire and air.

The 3rd category belongs to the bird kingdom, in them only 3 elements are active: water, fire and air.

The 4th category belongs to the mammals or four legged animals, in them except ether or akash is dormant, the rest 4
are active.

In the 5th category comes the human being, in him all the 5 elements are active, that is what distinguishes him from the rest of the creation, the element akash, gives him the reasoning faculty, known also as "budh" along with intelligence.

Now this was a short and a quick description of the physical creation.

Lets now take the following example, to ilustrate the topic being disscused above:

Let us imagine, seeing someone pluking a flower from somebody´s garden, the owner sees him and give him a good scolding.

2nd case, somone kills the dog of this same fellow, the case can be reported to the police and the infractor can be fined.

After some time, someone kills this man´s horse, this time the infractor can be jailed.

After sometime again, some dacoit enters this man´s house and kills the house owner, this time the dacoit can be hanged, for his crime. So as we can see, for each infraction there has been a punishment, according to the degree of of the infraction commited.The punishment depends on the degree of the level of conciousness present in that particular form of life, consequently depends on the degree of the tattwas present or active in that form of life.

We can not live in this creation without creating karma; and so, if we have to create karma by force, let us create or collect the least amount of it; that is why it is recomended to live on the vegetarian diet, by doing that, we collect the minnimum karma on our heads. The kiling in this creation is done on each step and is unavoidable, but by going for a vegetarian diet, killing is done to a lower level of conciousness, which means it´s effects are softer, and thus bearable. It is easier, to walk wearing a shirt, than to have 100 pounds of weight on our heads.

As any normal person can see by himself or herself, in no place is written, that eating anything, like even spinachs or drinking water, killing is not involved, on the contrary, it clearly states that,life in this creation is based on life, but having said that, it is now for us to decide how much karma one wants to put on one´s head....

And these karmas collected in this way of vegetarian diet, along with a moral life ... can easily be paid, or cleared off with the help of Nam Bhakti.

This is why true Gurmukhs stress upon vegetarian diet. Those who are meant to stay here, and roll up and down in the chaurasee ka chakar for quite some time, shall never accept these recomendations, they will say eat, and drink to your brim, who has seen tomorrow, spirituality is hallucination...or even go to the extent of manipulating the Bani, and say, there is no harm in eating this way or the other way, the non veg diet .....weak people ....justifying their weaknesses. But this weaknesses, is sure to give them pain. What you sow, so shall you reap. This is the law of karma. You sow pain, just for the pleasure of your tongue, you shall reap pain and suffering. Or, where is it seen that, you sow chilies and one reaps apples?

How stupid and silly to think that way. But,even to be silly or stupid, one has the freedom to be so.

But the fact is nobody can manipulate the Bani just like that, as long as His Gurmukhs keep coming , and put us on the right tracks, by giving us the right view of their predecessors, in the sacred Bani.

carlos
Guru Da Pyara
 
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